New Portobello High School - PPAG Judicial Review

[Sceptic]

If these allegations are true, then these people will have to be banned sine die from the CC. We cannot have threats of boycotts or embargoes made by those who, allegedly, are entrusted to represent Portobello People and Businesses. In addition, shop keepers who have had these threats made should report this to the Police. The Police may well say boycotts or embargoes are quite legal, but they have to be ,made aware of what is going on in their patch. Personally, I would name and shame, publicly. There you go, Fine Wines, put it in your window, "I was threatened by ........... from PPAG, if you want a new school, come inside and buy!"

[Chas]

[wangi]

[Porty]

The local businessman whom Stephen Hawkins talked to was Clive Andrew, owner of Shapes Hairdresser. He donated an empty shop, formerly Southfield stationers, to PFANS, to allow us to display posters. I spoke to Clive face to face and I'm taking a risk divulging what he said to me. It is a risk but I'm fairly sure that Clive will not take umbrage or offence. And he will repeat what he told me, if required. I strongly suggest that Brenda Moloney contacts Clive and gets the truth from the horse's mouth. He can no doubt shed some light on who spoke to other traders, causing them to remove our posters. Most of the "victims" are advertisers in the Portobello Reporter and earn a living on PHS.

Stephen visited Shapes unannounced on Saturday April 7th in the morning. He advised Clive that the school issue is controversial and by allowing PFANS posters to be displayed in the empty shop that he owns, it had the potential to affect his hairdressing business.

Clive sent Stephen packing, saying something along the lines of "the shop is lying empty, how could it affect my hairdressing business?" Clive was right of course, what percentage of Portobello citizens are aware that Clive owns the shop in question? Almost zero I'd wager but Cllr Hawkins does.. Stephen picked the wrong guy to put the frighteners on. perhaps he had more success with other traders?

As an aside Clive;is the Portobello Traders rep for PCC. The traders group has been inactive for over a year. nevertheless he is a Portobello community councillor and some of you may wish to contact him directly to affirm your support for ALL local traders- whether pro, neutral or anti school.

There are other who can authenticate Stephen's visit to Clive but its up to them whether they wish to go public.

[Makaveli]

Shocking to read all that above!!!

I think the main players at the PCC really have been shamed themselves with these tactics.

[Bob Jefferson]

I think that it is very important that we establish the truth of what has happened here. I can understand why traders might feel reluctant to attend a public meeting, but a simple statement would suffice. I would suggest that perhaps Sarah Woodford, the Town Manager for Leith and Portobello, might be the person to get to the bottom of this.

[Mark Cameron]

Just added a post on the save Porty park Facebook page linking to this thread. Surely Stephen Hawkins will want to formally answer these claims.

Porty -do you have an email address for Clive as I'd like to send my support and can reiterate id not boycott any traders based on their views on this matter. As a community we have all got to move on from this once the work starts on the new school.

[tufty]

I am almost speechless reading these emails. Surely any representative in a community council shown to be spreading such rumours without knowing names to collaborate the truth is not fit to remain in a position of trust. It is the sort of behaviour I see amongst bitching school girls who are not mature enough to understand the effects of lies and hearsay. You cannot possibly use tittle-tattle as the basis of an email campaign to question or damage the reputation of a group.
Also to use your position to threaten a trader?!
Is there a motion to call for removal of such members, surely you cannot lie, misrepresent or bully, then continue to sit in a place of trust.

[wangi]

[Mark Cameron]

Surprised to find my comments over the last few days have now been removed from save Porty park Facebook page. Seems they've maybe revised their openness policy?

I'd really like to hear Stephen Hawkins take on the events outlined above to reach a balanced view.

[wangi]

[Sceptic]

To paraphrase The Bard; "something is rotten in the State of Portobello". Rumour, counter-rumour,allegations, spin and propaganda.

Meanwhile the Children of Portobello continue to learn in sub standard accomodation.

No-one wins, everyone loses. Will the first loser be truth?

[Lashylass]

Why is everyone silent when Bob Jefferson's comments are quoted? Could it be you're all speechless because he is accusing PPAG of doing something he was already guilty of? Mmmmmm makes you think doesn't it? Is everyone scared of him?

[Makaveli]

It may well imply what you say but it does not say that there is going to be a boycott of stores does it?

The two accusations are totally different.

[Maria]

[Sceptic]

Ever heard of Rashomon?

It's where everone takes something different out of a statement because of their own experiences, personal bias and prejudices.

It's what we seem to heave here.

When clarity is need, clarity is the last thing we get.

[seashell]

I didn't respond to your post for one reason and one reason only. And that reason has nothing to do with Bob.

I can't speak for anyone else on here (unlike PPAG, who purport to do just that, without any factual evidence to back this claim up - like so many of their 'facts') but perhaps, like me, they have taken note of the tenor and content of your previous posts?

[rmolehusband]

[Lashylass]

Absolutely no difference at all. It does however show that nobody is brave enough to challenge the statement he made on here.

[wangi]

[Makaveli]

But it is so different - they are so different that only someone with an agenda wouldn't be able to see that.

[SoupDragon]

I've been lurking on this thread for sometime
I feel I have to respond to a statement made
I must admit it made me laugh out loud and spray tea over my keyboard

I'm not scared of Bob Jefferson

[Puerto bella]

[Paxetamor]

It's funny (if it wasn't so pathetic) that every time somebody posts anything that you find not to your liking it is branded stupid, moronic, idiotic etc. When really, I think the word you should be levelling at Bob is hypocrite. By the way, does the poster with the hectarage totals take into account the work currently being carried out at Jewel Park? I'm not sure what they're doing there but it seems to cover a large area of the park. I'm sure there is somebody out there that can enlighten me.

[Porty]

[rmolehusband]

[joeshmoe]

I dont know why the shopkeepers would be bothered about losing business from the ten supporters of PPAG who probably dint shop in Portobello anyway (too far beneath them)

[Puerto bella]

Regardless of all of the above....
Please think again PPAG......just because you are in a position to test the system doesnt mean you should.....
People will think no less of you if you call it a day.

[wangi]

[Mark Cameron]

Excerpt from Save Porty Park's facebook page. I'd posted some comments on this initially which were not deleted and remained on view for around a week. I then posted at the weekend to draw attention to the post by Seanie and Porty and to ask for an apology that they saw fit to claim my comments on the Scotsman website were defamatory.
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Save Porty Park More defamatory comments on the Scotsman website from Stevie Mac and mcdryburn (whoever they are), falsely claiming that PPAG have been putting pressure on Portobello traders or even threatening them to remove the PFANS posters. However, note the veiled threat in this posting by PFANS member Bob Jefferson: "And local parents will note which ones [shops] are supporting us".

The person or persons who put up these posters are at fault for putting the shopkeepers in an invidious position. This attempt to drag the traders into the debate seems to be part of a deeply cynical move to split the community from top to bottom."


Avril ScottTotally agree. The only people 'splitting the community' are the hardcore at TP.

Liz Henderson And the people who are fixated on residents that weren't born in Portobello? - they're not helping either.

Save Porty Park I didn't make any comment about people not being born in Portobello. You know a lot of PFANS supporters didn't grow up in the area. Where did you grow up? It isn't meant to be a detrimental statement. I'm just saying that they have no connection with the park/golf course. Some PFANS have actually been quite honest about this and admitted it. I also mean that some don't know the history. Did you know that Edinburgh Council promised never to build on Portobello Park and keep it only for recreational purposes when they took over from private ownership? This is some of the history that I'm talking about. The history that I suspect a lot of PFANS aren't aware of.
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What the hell does this issue have to do with where people are from/grew up? Are PPAG now trying to implement a 'no outsiders' policy or should us 'incomers' be made to sit a history test before being allowed to move to the area? As I said in the Facebook comment that was deleted- If as a species we were so concerned with preserving history we'd still be living in caves and hunting our food!

Most reasonable people don't want to see green space go and I wish PPAG would accept that that is the position of the majority.

However when a rigourous and transparent process has been undertaken (and challenged unsuccefully) most reasonable people would see the bigger picture and even if there were a few with nimby-goggles on they'd weigh up the feeling of the council, courts and community and accept change and see the good that will come from that change for the community for years to come.

I'm still waiting for the apology from Save Porty Park for claiming my comments were defamatory however if they drop the appeal I'd be willing to forget about the apology.

[Porty]

[rmolehusband]

[wangi]

[Porty]

[Pal of Porty]