Rat-running and large vehicles (Bath St, Straiton Pl etc)

Discussion and debate on the issues affecting Portobello

Re: Rat-running and large vehicles (Bath St, Straiton Pl etc

Postby SoupDragon » 17 Nov 2011, 14:57

I'd been assuming the majority of the bottlenecks were at peak times but I walked along High St today just before lunchtime and the traffic was backed up from Bath Street to nearly Bellfield Street
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Re: Rat-running and large vehicles (Bath St, Straiton Pl etc

Postby Makaveli » 17 Nov 2011, 15:43

The only solution to the blocked High Street is sorting those pedestrian lights - either by removal or by changing the sequence.


That's two solutions, removing them or changing the sequence. For the reasons I've already mentioned I doubt either will make a blind bit of difference, but while I would strongly object to removing them I wouldn't see any problem in changing the sequence.[/quote]

Don't know if you are being pedantic but I am sure you know I was saying I think the only solution is sorting the pedestrian lights - whether by sequence change or removal.
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Re: Rat-running and large vehicles (Bath St, Straiton Pl etc

Postby rmolehusband » 17 Nov 2011, 15:56

Makaveli wrote:Don't know if you are being pedantic but...


Sorry, does read a bit that way. I was just trying to emphasise that removal and re-phasing are very different options as far as I'm concerned - the removing being totally unacceptable to me, re-phasing I have no problem with. Just didn't want them lumped together as one option.
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Re: Rat-running and large vehicles (Bath St, Straiton Pl etc

Postby Makaveli » 17 Nov 2011, 16:05

Nae bother!!!

To me either of my suggestions are acceptable :)
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Re: Rat-running and large vehicles (Bath St, Straiton Pl etc

Postby Pal of Porty » 17 Nov 2011, 17:40

Pal of Porty wrote:The works at The Milton Link, Kings Road and Duddingston Park junctions have had a significant impact on the traffic flow through Portobello in my opinion. I live in Joppa and the traffic that now passes my front door since the Milton Link changes has almost doubled. I suggest this is because the traffic is now choosing to go via Porty rather than taking the Milton Road option when travelling from the Musselburgh Direction. I myself never used to travel via Porty to go to town and always took the Milton Road option but I am now 100% via Porty because it takes me so long going the Milton Road route. It is also much more difficult to cross the road at Seaview Terrace and sometimes takes ages to pull out in a car to join the traffic. On a purely selfish basis, I hate the Milton Link junction and the daily impact it has on me. I have not even had the benefit of cycling safely through The Milton Link junction because if I am up that way on my bike, I just take the innocent link! 8)

PS Total sense to time the Pedestrian crossing at the Town Hall with the Bath Street lights at peak times - been glaringly obvious for some time it would help things.

I remember posting this in June! 8)
Justice delayed is justice denied.
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Re: Rat-running and large vehicles (Bath St, Straiton Pl etc

Postby Mark Cameron » 17 Nov 2011, 21:11

:twisted: Cut the wires at the pedestrian crossing and that'll let you see what effect that has on the congestion until CEC send out a man in a van. Alternatively we could also suggest they switch them off for a week - you know a kind of 'experiment'?
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Re: Rat-running and large vehicles (Bath St, Straiton Pl etc

Postby Makaveli » 17 Nov 2011, 21:54

I like your thinking =D>
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Re: Rat-running and large vehicles (Bath St, Straiton Pl etc

Postby wangi » 17 Nov 2011, 22:08

mcdryburn wrote::twisted: Cut the wires at the pedestrian crossing and that'll let you see what effect that has on the congestion until CEC send out a man in a van. Alternatively we could also suggest they switch them off for a week - you know a kind of 'experiment'?

Back up the thread I proposed replacing the pedestrian crossing with a zebra crossing - I still think that would be the best of both worlds. Car drivers aren't all utter bastards, and vast majority respect zebra crossings. They've less waiting for involved - true for the drivers too who do not have to wait in front of an empty crossing waiting for a robot to go green.

And if you think it will not work due to amount of traffic then just take a look at Peebles High St - works a charm, and a busier road.

L/
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Re: Rat-running and large vehicles (Bath St, Straiton Pl etc

Postby Grunk » 18 Nov 2011, 11:13

So the two issues are:

Timeout period is too short (pretty much goes whenever anyone turns up).
Crossing period is too long (to allow slow folk to cross).

A zebra crossing would fix issue #2 but make issue #1 worse.
I would have thought that phasing, would be easier to accomplish as the required circuitry should be there already.

Possibly the greatest issue is convincing someone in the transport department that there is a problem, and that they might like to fix it a bit, and earn some of that salary that we are paying for.
Unfortunately every interaction I've had with them, is like talking to a brick wall. They are another bunch of folk who think that the general public are too stupid to have any good ideas ever.

Edit :- Actually, come to think of it, maybe the best approach is to always suggest the opposite of what we want...
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Re: Rat-running and large vehicles (Bath St, Straiton Pl etc

Postby Bazza » 18 Nov 2011, 11:34

If we increased the traffic flow on the High Street, other cars would realise that this was a good option, and start using it, thus building up the pressure again, bringing us back where we started. It's a pattern seen time and again with traffic flow.
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Re: Rat-running and large vehicles (Bath St, Straiton Pl etc

Postby rmolehusband » 18 Nov 2011, 12:48

Bazza wrote:If we increased the traffic flow on the High Street, other cars would realise that this was a good option, and start using it, thus building up the pressure again, bringing us back where we started. It's a pattern seen time and again with traffic flow.


I agree, that's the basic catch-22 of traffic management. While I'd love to see a reduction in traffic through the high street as well, the solution to the rat running issues has to lie in the streets concerned.
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Re: Rat-running and large vehicles (Bath St, Straiton Pl etc

Postby Pal of Porty » 18 Nov 2011, 15:40

The traffic through Porty has increased because of the works to the Milton Link, the crossroads at the Milton Fry chippie and the addition of the bus lane. The bus lane in particular has severely restricted the traffic flow in what was a relatively free flowing road. The consequence is that many more cars now use Porty.

We therefore need to speed up the Milton Link area (taking away the bus lane would definitely do that) or slow down Porty traffic with some of the measures already described on this thread so that cars revert to Milton Road. Cars are like water - they will always find their level! 8)
Justice delayed is justice denied.
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Re: Rat-running and large vehicles (Bath St, Straiton Pl etc

Postby Grunk » 18 Nov 2011, 18:57

rmolehusband wrote:
Bazza wrote:If we increased the traffic flow on the High Street, other cars would realise that this was a good option, and start using it, thus building up the pressure again, bringing us back where we started. It's a pattern seen time and again with traffic flow.


I agree, that's the basic catch-22 of traffic management. While I'd love to see a reduction in traffic through the high street as well, the solution to the rat running issues has to lie in the streets concerned.


That's not really true though is it?
Increasing the efficiency through the high street isn't going to magically make more people go out and buy cars.

you may encourage people from another route, but by doing that the other route loses its weight of traffic and becomes more attractive. So some improvement is still to be had. Even if the queues are as long, traffic will pass faster, meaning that the rat run won't be of any benefit.

Of course the arterial route should be adjusted so it is working at maximum efficiency, when that is the case there
should be no harm in improving the other routes, even if out is only to get folk on to the preferred route quicker.

unless of course you are subscribing to cec's policy of relative improvement by making all other options worse.
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Re: Rat-running and large vehicles (Bath St, Straiton Pl etc

Postby wangi » 06 Jan 2012, 11:20

wangi wrote:His question - where's Leith Docks? He plugged in Bath St to the sat nav; ignored all the signs to Leith and somehow managed not to end up at *Bath Road*. No idea how that flat bed truck is getting / got out...


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16434183
Sat-nav problems tackled at government summit

The problems caused when lorry and car drivers are misdirected by out-of-date directions from their sat-navs are to be tackled at a government summit.

Local Transport Minister Norman Baker will host the talks in March to ensure everything possible is done to get the right vehicles on the right roads.

Mr Baker said misdirected traffic was a "scourge of local communities".

...

(although not directly relevant to Scotland, because it's probably devolved...)
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Re: Rat-running and large vehicles (Bath St, Straiton Pl etc

Postby Grunk » 16 Jan 2012, 13:33

Apparently there was consultation about this which ended last week.

I wonder how many other consultations I am unaware of...

http://www.scotsman.com/news/bid_to_tackle_portobello_s_rat_run_1_2059493
Bid to tackle Portobello’s rat run
Portobello streets where a one way system may be introduced

A NEW one-way system has been proposed to alleviate congestion in a notorious city rat run.

New parking restrictions, pavement extensions and a one-way system in Portobello’s Marlborough Street, Regent Street and Straiton Place look set to be introduced following a consultation with residents, which concluded last week.

In response to concerns about congestion, pedestrian safety and access problems for emergency vehicles, two variations of a one-way system were drawn up and, at next month’s Portobello and Craigmillar Neighbourhood Partnership meeting, it will be decided whether to choose one of these or retain the existing set-up.

...
Last edited by wangi on 16 Jan 2012, 21:14, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: add quote
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Re: Rat-running and large vehicles (Bath St, Straiton Pl etc

Postby bearcub » 16 Jan 2012, 15:19

Grunk wrote:Apparently there was consultation about this which ended last week.

I wonder how many other consultations I am unaware of...

http://www.scotsman.com/news/bid_to_tackle_portobello_s_rat_run_1_2059493


To be fair to the council, we live in Marlborough St and got a flyer through the door advertising the consultation meeting in the Town Hall, and that the proposals would be on display in the library for comment afterwards.

Couldn't make the meeting, but went to the library and viewed the 3 proposals on offer.

Two of the proposals were for widening the pavements on Straiton Place and adding pinch-points, along with re-marking parking bays, and making Straiton, Marlborough and Regent all one-way. The only difference I could see between the two was which way the one-way system went.

The other proposal didn't, to me, seem much different than what is there at the moment.

I put forward my support and comments for the one-way system.
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Re: Traffic and Parking Consultation Event

Postby Maria » 16 Jan 2012, 17:57

Grunk wrote:Apparently there was consultation about this which ended last week.

I wonder how many other consultations I am unaware of...

http://www.scotsman.com/news/bid_to_tackle_portobello_s_rat_run_1_2059493


I put this up back on page 2 of this thread Grunk

Marya wrote:Image
Traffic and Parking Consultation: 25 May 2011; 7 to 9pm @ Portobello Town Hall
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Re: Rat-running and large vehicles (Bath St, Straiton Pl etc

Postby Maria » 16 Jan 2012, 18:29

I'm quite surprised it was as far back as last May that the first consultation was held. The wheels of government certainly move more slowly than some of the traffic round here!
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Re: Rat-running and large vehicles (Bath St, Straiton Pl etc

Postby seanie » 16 Jan 2012, 19:16

I think there's supposed to be a report on the consultation going to the Neighbourhood Partnership at the end of February.
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Re: Rat-running and large vehicles (Bath St, Straiton Pl etc

Postby Puerto bella » 17 Jan 2012, 00:32

[quote="Grunk"]Apparently there was consultation about this which ended last week.

I wonder how many other consultations I am unaware of...

quote]

If I recall it was published at fairly short notice - about a week before it started and it was just before Xmas when the Town Hall event happened so the leaflet could have been missed in the rush up to Xmas which is a shame.
There were adverts on here and on facebook page - TP and Porty Traffic NIghtmares.
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Re: Rat-running and large vehicles (Bath St, Straiton Pl etc

Postby Puerto bella » 17 Jan 2012, 15:05

Would anyone like to come and gaze in awe at the lovely railing I've been asking for for in excess of 6.5 years? I'll be putting a ribbon around it, polishing it regularly and putting out a christmas stocking for it ;)
Its just wonderful. Thankyou C'llor Bridgeman for getting it done.
Why didnt I come to you in the first place instead of wasting time emailing the other two councillors who I mistakenly thought had Portobello people's interests at heart and who I foolishly had faith in helping me sort it out.
Its made my day.
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Re: Rat-running and large vehicles (Bath St, Straiton Pl etc

Postby wangi » 17 Jan 2012, 15:12

Puerto bella wrote:Would anyone like to come and gaze in awe at the lovely railing I've been asking for for in excess of 6.5 years? I'll be putting a ribbon around it, polishing it regularly and putting out a christmas stocking for it ;)

Go on, show us a photie.
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Re: Rat-running and large vehicles (Bath St, Straiton Pl etc

Postby Puerto bella » 17 Jan 2012, 15:16

If I knew how to upload them to here I would.
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Re: Rat-running and large vehicles (Bath St, Straiton Pl etc

Postby SoupDragon » 17 Jan 2012, 16:29

Is it the railing they installed on Sunday morning? Top of the lane next to the Straiton Place park?
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Re: Rat-running and large vehicles (Bath St, Straiton Pl etc

Postby Puerto bella » 17 Jan 2012, 19:28

no - outside my door
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Re: Rat-running and large vehicles (Bath St, Straiton Pl etc

Postby SoupDragon » 17 Jan 2012, 20:16

Oh when did they put that in? I didn't notice it when I walked up past there on Monday
I wonder how long the one in Straiton Place will last given how often cars seems to mount the pavement here
How long before the one near you is clipped, Puerto Bella?

Wonder if the council will ever do anything about the grey posts with nothing on them or even the conflicting speed limit sign
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Re: Rat-running and large vehicles (Bath St, Straiton Pl etc

Postby Puerto bella » 17 Jan 2012, 22:31

It went in this am.
Grey posts are due to be rationalised as part of the overall traffic management work they're consulting on.
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Re: Rat-running and large vehicles (Bath St, Straiton Pl etc

Postby bearcub » 17 Jan 2012, 23:39

One-way signs are now up, and painted on the road, in Bellfield Lane. Now no entry from Straiton Place.
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Re: Rat-running and large vehicles (Bath St, Straiton Pl etc

Postby SoupDragon » 18 Jan 2012, 09:53

Bellfield Lane has been one way for a couple of months now, Bearcub
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Re: Rat-running and large vehicles (Bath St, Straiton Pl etc

Postby bearcub » 18 Jan 2012, 17:31

That'll teach me to open my eyes when walking the dog! :lol:

To be honest, it was the new illuminated signs on the Lane itself that I noticed, and I just assumed the one-way part had only just come along at the same time too. :oops:
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Re: Rat-running and large vehicles (Bath St, Straiton Pl etc

Postby SoupDragon » 18 Jan 2012, 18:11

I think the illumination is fairly new, I certainly hadn't noticed it being lit up before

Like the railings Puerto Bella, hopefully that'll stop cars mounting the pavement there.
They're lovely and shiney


We also got one of the leaflets around November/December but we didn't have any free time to go look at the plans
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Re: Rat-running and large vehicles (Bath St, Straiton Pl etc

Postby Puerto bella » 18 Jan 2012, 19:59

It is working already.
I was out polishing it this morning - hence the shine ;)
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Re: Rat-running and large vehicles (Bath St, Straiton Pl etc

Postby Pal of Porty » 19 Jan 2012, 15:53

PB - I passed the railings yesterday and could not see what all the excitement was about. What am I missing? 8)
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Re: Rat-running and large vehicles (Bath St, Straiton Pl etc

Postby SoupDragon » 19 Jan 2012, 19:07

You frequently get cars trying to pass each other and turn the corner at the same time, it's a very awkward corner so PB presumably could be coming out her front door into the path of a car driving up the pavement, the railing should stop that
The railing at the lane are there to stop kids running up and onto the road I assume, again you get cars trying to pass each other there so i do wonder how long before they are damaged, given that the railing outside our block have been damaged by cars twice.
Or it may a handy bike park says Mr Soupy ( though his latest one a b'Twin is going to be chained up in our house ! )
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Re: Rat-running and large vehicles (Bath St, Straiton Pl etc

Postby Epykat » 19 Jan 2012, 19:52

Pal of Porty wrote:PB - I passed the railings yesterday and could not see what all the excitement was about. What am I missing? 8)



Give her a chance! She's putting the fairy lights up at the weekend :roll:
Enough of your nonsense - get back to the Play Pen!
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