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Talk Porty ~ Portobello Forum for Portobello in Edinburgh, Scotland 2004-06-30T23:06:32+01:00 https://forum.talkporty.org/feed.php?f=2&t=251 2004-06-30T23:06:32+01:00 2004-06-30T23:06:32+01:00 https://forum.talkporty.org/viewtopic.php?t=251&p=2249#p2249 <![CDATA[Congestion charging]]> Statistics: Posted by administrator — 30 Jun 2004, 23:06


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2004-05-25T16:50:40+01:00 2004-05-25T16:50:40+01:00 https://forum.talkporty.org/viewtopic.php?t=251&p=1770#p1770 <![CDATA[poll result]]> Statistics: Posted by administrator — 25 May 2004, 16:50


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2004-05-13T10:29:36+01:00 2004-05-13T10:29:36+01:00 https://forum.talkporty.org/viewtopic.php?t=251&p=1638#p1638 <![CDATA[Congestion Charging]]>
I personally don't take my car when going into town other than for work, but I quite often drive through town to avoid the bypass!
Where's the logic in that I hear you ask?
When I was at Heriot Watt Uni the quickest way to get there form Porty was along Princess Street, the West approach Road and out Calder Road, as the bypass is 4 miles further and moves at about 7MPH in rush hour!!

David Begg and subsequent council transport officers seem to have one aim: Edinburgh with no cars. Unfortunately they are too focussed on this, without providing alternatives which are as convenient.

Trams- What happens when the routes need to change?

Bus Park & Ride - Where are they? Bath has great, cheap, park & ride

Congestion charging - Is it to raise revenue or reduce traffic, surely if CC was effective, it would only raise a very small amount of cash, which may cover it's costs, but would not raise enough revenue to improve public transport. But then I guess that's why the car haters want to introduce it before providing alternative means.

Car drivers already pay tax than any other consumer group in this country, if everyone stopped using cars, the government would lose a huge amount of tax revenue, the same is true of smolers. The treasury don't want people to stop smoking or driving, or there'd be an even bigger deficit in public funding!

Speed Bumps - These are springing up all over the city, hindering emergency vehicles, increasing noise and pollution as cars slow and acelerate. Quite often the speed limit is still 30MPH, why not just reduce it to 20, because I know a lot of people will accelerate to 30 in between the bumps anyway! I know I could actually do more than 30 in between bumps to keep my average speed around tbne limit if I was so inclined,m but if the limit was 20 I'd be inclined to travel a lot slower.

Hope that all makes sense, a bit of a baptism of fire as my first post.

Cheers
Jamie

Statistics: Posted by ceejam — 13 May 2004, 10:29


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2004-05-09T16:17:40+01:00 2004-05-09T16:17:40+01:00 https://forum.talkporty.org/viewtopic.php?t=251&p=1606#p1606 <![CDATA[How?]]> Statistics: Posted by Cynthia — 09 May 2004, 16:17


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2004-05-09T14:57:37+01:00 2004-05-09T14:57:37+01:00 https://forum.talkporty.org/viewtopic.php?t=251&p=1605#p1605 <![CDATA[Congestion charging]]> Statistics: Posted by Guest — 09 May 2004, 14:57


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2004-05-09T12:38:32+01:00 2004-05-09T12:38:32+01:00 https://forum.talkporty.org/viewtopic.php?t=251&p=1599#p1599 <![CDATA[against congestion charges]]>
I have also been told that if public transport is improved people actually choose that as an alternative eg a lot of people choose to travel into Edinburgh from Porty by bus because the no 26 is fairly frequent.
One suggestion I have for taking traffic off the roads is simple but dramatic (and socialist ie in the common good) - renationalise the railways, & buses, thus making these non profit making (and unified ie not a whole lot of companies competing against each other or not joined up) and make it very cheap for freight to be transported by rail. If you want proof of the nos of huge lorries etc on our roads (big lorries/juggernauts = lots more pollution) stand by HL roundabout for ten minutes - an hour and you will see the huge vehicles regularly going around that roundabout - to Leith or on to the Bypass. These transport goods from cars to everything else. If we could reduce this type of traffic to a quarter of what it is (ie probably more local lorries picking stuff up from delivery points at railway stations or nearby to take to local shops) surely that would help a great deal.
Also if we made travel by bus just on one bus company that is run for the public good, all profits being reinvested into the service, and using DIRECT TAXATION of the very wealthy - taking income tax of the very rich up to the level it was under Thatcher - to subsidise improvements in rail and bus infrastructure, we could easily have a very fine public transport system, which people would choose in favour of traffic jams, parking charges, stress of driving etc.
There are lots of other arguments that have been made against congestion charges along these lines, and I can't remember them all. I don't drive altho get occasional lifts - and I don't like pollution, traffic accidents etc but I don't think Congestion Charges is the best way to raise money to invest in public services - or deter car drivers.
For instance, a bus driver for LRT told me he drove here from Fife because LRT is a better employer than some of the other bus companies - he is in favour of renationalising all public transport including making LRT a direct public service again and not having to compete with private bus companies. He would be punished by congestion charges.
A nurse working on quite a low wage, as most public sector staff are, having to use her or his car to get to work, often early in the morning or very late at night, will be punished by c charges (plus the exorbitant parking charges at the RIE including for staff). A lot of public sector workers live in Midlothian, W Lothian, Fife, small villages in E Lothian etc, because it is cheaper, and drive to work here. They will be punished by C Charges.
Everything is related - we have an overheated housing market particularly in Edinburgh with ridiculous prices - very rich people with too much money are investing their £££ in flats and houses to get a 'good return' and a better one than they can get on the stocks and shares market at the moment. But this is pushing house prices up to levels where people have to move away from Edinburgh to get a decent place to live. Someone suggested we should tax people higher who do this. I suggest we should just raise Income Tax over a certain (high) threshold up to the level that Thatcher taxed the v rich at (until she eventually put it down and TB has kept it down)....these people not only have far too much money but are inflating our house prices so people can't afford a roof over their head, move out of town and drive in to do essential jobs, often in public services. Yet wages don't go up in line with house prices (or even to match the increase in the C Tax)
So I think Congestion Charging is on balance a mistake. Its a short term fix that will actually be detrimental to lower paid people and it is an attempt to raise money for public transport through indirect taxation, particularly hurting lower paid/average waged people rather than raising money for public services through raising Income Tax on those who can afford to pay more to subsidise public services.

My suggestion: Renationalise rail and bus transport and increase direct taxation on the very wealthy (not sure what level this should be set at but at least on people earning £100,000 plus - possibly £50,000 plus - what do people think? and use this increased taxation to subsidise public transport, giving freight huge discounts on rail to take the big lorries off our roads...... Carla

Statistics: Posted by Cynthia — 09 May 2004, 12:38


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2004-05-08T10:56:18+01:00 2004-05-08T10:56:18+01:00 https://forum.talkporty.org/viewtopic.php?t=251&p=1585#p1585 <![CDATA[Congestion charging]]>
It is a positive scheme i.e. people are encouraged to travel on public transport, people outside of the city are encouraged to park & ride.

The congestion charging scheme is a negative charge i.e. it punishes behaviour. This makes people resentful and perhaps determined to beat the system. The capital costs are high and I should imagine the operational costs and frictions will be high.

I like SIMPLE systems.

Statistics: Posted by Brian McCrow — 08 May 2004, 10:56


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2004-05-06T13:47:24+01:00 2004-05-06T13:47:24+01:00 https://forum.talkporty.org/viewtopic.php?t=251&p=1576#p1576 <![CDATA[Congestion charging]]> Statistics: Posted by bellybabe — 06 May 2004, 13:47


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2004-05-05T17:46:05+01:00 2004-05-05T17:46:05+01:00 https://forum.talkporty.org/viewtopic.php?t=251&p=1573#p1573 <![CDATA[Congestion charging]]> Statistics: Posted by Ned Ludd — 05 May 2004, 17:46


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2004-05-05T12:40:03+01:00 2004-05-05T12:40:03+01:00 https://forum.talkporty.org/viewtopic.php?t=251&p=1570#p1570 <![CDATA[Congestion charging]]>
I placed an alternative on this board a few weeks ago

Statistics: Posted by Brian McCrow — 05 May 2004, 12:40


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2004-05-02T20:13:52+01:00 2004-05-02T20:13:52+01:00 https://forum.talkporty.org/viewtopic.php?t=251&p=1549#p1549 <![CDATA[Congestion charging]]>
We still haven't heard anything from those who oppose the charge in the way of an alternative. Let's hear your proposals to solve the city's traffic problems.

More debate! More votes!

Statistics: Posted by Guest — 02 May 2004, 20:13


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2004-04-30T22:03:13+01:00 2004-04-30T22:03:13+01:00 https://forum.talkporty.org/viewtopic.php?t=251&p=1543#p1543 <![CDATA[born to be miiiiild]]> Statistics: Posted by Guest — 30 Apr 2004, 22:03


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2004-04-30T17:29:19+01:00 2004-04-30T17:29:19+01:00 https://forum.talkporty.org/viewtopic.php?t=251&p=1537#p1537 <![CDATA[Congestion charging]]>
http://www.granbyscooters.co.uk/italvel_day.htm

Statistics: Posted by Guest — 30 Apr 2004, 17:29


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2004-04-29T17:44:15+01:00 2004-04-29T17:44:15+01:00 https://forum.talkporty.org/viewtopic.php?t=251&p=1532#p1532 <![CDATA[Congestion charging]]>

Statistics: Posted by Guest — 29 Apr 2004, 17:44


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2004-04-27T22:24:59+01:00 2004-04-27T22:24:59+01:00 https://forum.talkporty.org/viewtopic.php?t=251&p=1528#p1528 <![CDATA[Congestion charging]]> Statistics: Posted by Guest — 27 Apr 2004, 22:24


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