New Portobello High School - PPAG/"Save Porty Park"

[Makaveli]

This has to be a wind up non? Last remaining green space? Do you even live in the area as there are loads of parks around Porty Park.

You are making it sound like once the school is built we will be living in a concrete jungle!!!

[Epykat]

[Epykat]

Oh, and Sean - at the risk of sounding like a vacuous liar - it was actually me who had a nice cup of tea and a chat with the architect.......believe it...I little no mark like myself.......

[Makaveli]

So there will be no park space in and around Portobello?

Your havering.

[seanie]

[seanie]

[Makaveli]

For me what it boils down to is that no-one wants to see the park go but there is no viable alternative.

Once everyone gets that fact then we can push on and get the new school built and get the kids in there. In the current economic climate the fact that the council are investing so much money should not be sniffed and the new school should benefit the whole community for many years to come.

[Betty Windsor]

[quote="Makaveli"]For me what it boils down to is that no-one wants to see the park go but there is no viable alternative.

I think plenty of people havre made it abundantly clear they do want to see the "park" go, and sorry to contradict you but there is a viable alternatie. A re-build on the existing site is possible and I'm sure you are well aware of that fact. I'd love to know what other green space you would say was available to the people of Christians and Magdalene. There is a thin strip of grass between the back greens and the railway- is that what you're referring to?

[Franck]

[Makaveli]

There is also The Figgate which is a very short walk from Porty park.

As for re-building on the current plot like Franck says have you not read the other responses in this thread? It simply makes no sense to do this.

I would dearly love for there to be a bit of wasteland that we could build the school on but alas there is not - so we all have to take the hit and move on.

[seashell]

It might be possible to re-build on the existing site - but that was ruled out a long time ago for good reasons, not the least of which is the fact that, contrary to your assertion it is simply *not* viable either in terms of space required. Plus there is the fact that the pupils have to be decanted elsewhere. during the period not only of demolition but of rebuilding. So the rebuild option was discounted and ruled as not practicable. Just because something is "possible" does not mean that it will be effective. In an ideal world we would have lots of green space - but when you live in a city the fact is that the demands for schools, shops and housing mean this is diminishing. I'm not saying this is a good thinkg - I'm just pointing out the facts.

[Porty]

When growing up in the Christians we used Joppa quarry far more than Portobelllo Park and we used the grassy area adjacent to Milton Road at the top of Christian Crescent more than the quarry.

There is no viable alternative. A rebuild on site is undoubtedly possible but it is not economically viable nor is it educationally viable.

[seanie]

[Betty Windsor]

[quote="Porty"]When growing up in the Christians we used Joppa quarry far more than Portobelllo Park and we used the grassy area adjacent to Milton Road at the top of Christian Crescent more than the quarry.

You either have a short memory or the other boys from the Christians didn't play with you.

[Porty]

On the contrary, I have a superb memory. I could list 30 or more guys who used to play football, tennis, levoy either at the quarry or more frequently on the grassy area. Many went on to play a high standard of football, at least two were professionals.

You can claim Portobello Park is well used but it simply isn't true. Check out the usage survey.

[seanie]

[Pal of Porty]

[Bob Jefferson]

Betty, you're right you know. It's completely unfair that children at private schools have vast acres of green space while kids at Porty High have nothing but concrete. If you want to start a campaign about that I'll gladly join you. I believe in state education and I want the kids of Portobello, Joppa and yes, the Christians and Magdalene to have facilities that are just as good if not better than they have at schools like Fettes. Why wouldn't I? Why wouldn't any parent? So don't make out that we are trying to take something away from the 'poor people' because what we want is the best possible educational facility for ALL local children. That is their right and that's what they deserve. They don't care about the muddy field. They don't use it. That's a fact.

[Betty Windsor]

Does this mean that you believe that only green space that is used by humans is worth holding onto?

How do you think this is going to serve the wider community for years to come?

[seanie]

Nothing that anybody has said implies, or even comes close to implying, that only green space used by humans is valuable.

[Porty]

No-one said it, thats all the evidence Betty requires.
Is "she" now arguing the park is valuable because humans dont use it. Seems like a bit of a turnaround from just 3 or 4 posts ago.

[Porty]

Maybe thats where the council screwed up.they ought to have commisioned a non usage survey.

I think it was "Ghost" who first floated the non-usage concept, the other day in the EN. She was going on about how its not just those that use the park its the people who also use Milton Road who will be missing out too. We need parks for our motorists to drive by, apparently.

I've been thinking about why we used the other bits of green space more than Portobello Park and there was a few reasons (that I was not really aware of at the time")

There were often smallish groups of us, up to about 10 in number. PP was too big and open, and because we were small we didn't need a lot of space. The footballs were often heavy leather and one couldn't kick them that far!

The grassy area is compact and the quarry is sheltered and it also had the swing park. Plus the bigger boys used to dominate Portobello park on a sunday. I can recall "take ons" 11 a-side games between Magdalene and the Christians. They were played on the grassy area and I think maybe on the Magdalene side too. We also used to play in the grassy area behind Christian Crescent abutting the railway wall. And there was a field between the Christians and Brunstane road, which was a brilliant spot for gang huts and catching grasshoppers. There was even a blaze cycle track around the pylon that now sits in the garden of a new build house off Brunstane Road. Portobello Park was a not particularly flat, featureless expanse which didn't seem that appealing then and only moderatley more so now.

[rmolehusband]

[Makaveli]

As rmolehusband says it will provide schooling to the local children - and being a brand new state of the art school will attract new parents to the area which will bring in more shoppers to the High Street and help stabilse local house prices, it might even help push them up.

[Epykat]

[seanie]

Leaving aside other issues for a moment, most people (and I don't think I'm going out on a limb here) would regard a brand new school, with all the facilities that entails along with accessible all-weather pitches, as a positive thing.

[Epykat]

It could be a positive thing in one way and a negative thing in another. There will be good points about the new school but there will also be bad. It would just be refreshing for you and others to admit or acknowledge that not EVERYTHING will be wonderful and join the real world.

[seanie]

Well I've said on many occasions that it's not an ideal site, for more than one reason. So I have indeed acknowledged negatives. I just happen to think they're far outweighed by the positives.

[Makaveli]

People are more than willing to move to a certain area to ensure a good education for their children. Maybe you want to joing the real world.

It has been said by plenty people in this thread that the loss of Porty Park is regrettable but maybe you just choose to ignore those and find it much better trying to make yourself look clever by trying to take the mickey out of other people. I think you need to wind your neck in.

[Epykat]

[Epykat]

[seanie]

There are all kinds of pressures facing schools, and given the economic situation that's likely to get worse over the next few years. But Portobello High School can either face that in a crumbling, inadequate building, with substandard facilities (as you seem to prefer) or on a new, high quality campus with much improved facilities. The capital spend on the school is not the cause of the revenue pressures faced; they are separate things.

[seanie]

And for all your talk of thinking about the whole package, and others joining the real world, you were the one insisting that the school was an open plan design. A claim that has no basis in observable reality. So at least in part, you seem to be basing your opinions on 'facts' that you've simply invented.

[Makaveli]

New school = new facilities = better education.

It's a simple equation.

[Pal of Porty]

Epykat- It requires all the things you talk about AND fit for purpose buildings, the two are not mutually exclusive.

A one off £40m is the equivalent of about 6 weeks of the City's annual expenditure on education. It may provide improvements in the area you mention but for only a very short time.

And once it was spent PHS would still need replacing. And if the school is not replaced, how long would it be before £40M was spent keeping it safe, wind and watertight and still not fit for purpose.

The money is coming from different budgets. It may seem the same to you but its not and for good reason.

Do you still hold the view that the current School is fit for purpose?