Woodwares closing / Sainsburys coming to Portobello

[Bob Jefferson]

Is this their standard Sainsbury Local shopfront design? Someone mentioned that they used something different in the New Town. Can we see an example of this?

[lg1726]

[Mark Cameron]

questions surely also need to be asked of the community council. what are they basing their intended objection on?

[wangi]

the personal opinions of the usual subjects?

[lg1726]

[Bob Jefferson]

[Bob Jefferson]

John also sent these images of examples of where Sainsbury's has taken a more sensitive approach to its surroundings.

Howe Street

Bruntsfield

sainsbury's bruntsfield.jpg (4.97 KiB) Viewed 11082 times

Bernard Street

[Bob Jefferson]

Here is the document that John refers to and I have to say that it is very welcome and refreshing that the CC is responding in this way. If only they had shared their opinions with the community BEFORE they decided to object.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/98946727/busin ... anning.pdf

[wangi]

"which is currently in draft form" ...

[Mark Cameron]

...have asked John Stewart whether there was any discussion between PCC and sainsbury to see if theyre willing to adopt a heritage frontage or if the default position of objecting was taken. Will let you know what JS says.

[wangi]

[seashell]

So why wasn't this discussed at the meeting on 24 September?
Am I the only person who thinks they had already decided to object, but didn't want it discussed?

[seashell]

[Makaveli]

Yet again no consultaion from the PCC - why? Why does this continue to happen?

If it wasn't for this website I would be none the wiser to the fact that the PCC had decided for me that I wanted to object!!

Portobello is a farce of place.

[Maria]

Had been holding off posting, but feel there is a danger that people may end up supporting something simply, because 'the usual suspects' are organising a campaign against, which could result in us shooting ourselves in the foot.

First of all, if asked for my personal view, I would place myself in the 'Sorry to see Woodwares go, but not against Sainsbury's' camp. I did, however, agree at the last CC meeting that the plans submitted by Sainsbury's for Portobello's listed buildings were less preferable to ones used elsewhere in the city. The 'heritage' designs shops that I have seen elsewhere (I saw one, for example, in Lancaster that looked very smart) look less intrusive than what is currently planned by Sainsbury's for Portobello. I would urge people to look at the photos (posted by Bob earlier in this thread) of some of Sainsbury's 'heritage style' examples around Edinburgh and see what they think of them, before deciding whether or not to support Sainsbury's current application for alterations. I believe that in other conservation areas, Sainsbury's have automatically offered their 'heritage' design as the first option and I am puzzled as to why they did not do so here.

Secondly, do not underestimate the possible noise from cooling plant. I do not profess any specialist knowledge here or strong views on this issue, but it may be perhaps worth investigating if you live nearby. I know residents of some houses in Craigleith will happily warn you what that may be like, as they have been fighting a battle over intrusive noise from cooling plants, installed by Sainsbury's, when they extended their Blackhall store.

Thirdly, yes, the current Woodwares/Home store frontage may not be a thing of great beauty , but surely that isn't a reason to hold back from asking Sainsbury's to provide a more subtle design? Several local shops have, in recent years, used grants to restore their frontages, which does not mean they have ended up looking like something out of the ark. I'm thinking of 'Carlo's' as an example, here. Others, such as 'Shapes' on Brighton Place have also had to adhere to retaining some original features, when replacing their windows, yet I don't think the premises look 'dated' or twee in any way.

Finally, be aware that on Geoff Lynn's consultation document, the plan used does not show the full extent of the alterations. The old butcher's shop/paint shop will also have its frontage altered. A small omission no doubt to some, but could be more major for others.*

edit: * Believe this has now been rectified. Thanks, Geoff.

[Maria]

It was discussed under 'Planning' Seashell.

[lg1726]

[seashell]

Marya - I agree totally that many, many people have come to the point where they see DC protesting against something and once more placing herself as the self-appointed voice of the community and automatically take the opposing point of view simply because of her past record. And for this she has only herself to blame.

However, there is a more serious issue here - in that it appears that while traders appear to have been consulted, the local populace have not been. Once again the PCC know best - by magic. It could even be viewed as an diversionary tactic to try to delay Sainsbury's opening or even an attempt to make things difficult for them in the hope they might give up.

Yet again we see a small group of people who are supposed to represent the community going on their own sweet way and it is no wonder that there is an atmosphere of "if they are against it, then I'm for it", which is not the best way for any progress to be beneficial. It is a mystery to me why consultation frightens the PCC, but it clearly does. Surely if they are so convinced they are right then there is no risk in opening things up to the community and being clear, open and transparent?

[seashell]

Thanks, Marya - I was going by the posts above.

[Bob Jefferson]

And it's not difficult to consult. Geoff Lynn has demonstrated that now on several occasions. At this point, the Chair should be trying to co-opt Geoff and use his talents on behalf of the Community Council.

On this occasion, I think the 'usual suspects' may have some merit in their arguments. Maybe that Georgian doorway could be preserved. Perhaps the 'heritage' design would be more in keeping. But I can't help feeling, like many of you, that they are simply against Sainsbury's and just want to make life as difficult as possible by objecting to every aspect of every application.

The main point here though, is that we want to be consulted. Give us the facts and share your thoughts BEFORE a decision is made, not afterwards.

[Franck]

I agree with the shop front looking pretty naff and agree that the objection raised is correct, the one in Bernard street looks much nicer.

[seashell]

[bearcub]

[Makaveli]

It was that phrase that got me too Bearcub 'all we can do is object' as if they have to object on some level!!!

I think your post above sums up what most people probably feel about this issue. If only the PCC would go out and ask first.

[lg1726]

[wangi]

You are wrong.
DC is there to tell you what is right. It is her way or the high way.
It matters not a jot if *you* would find an ATM outside a convenience store handy - like to find out how much money you had left at the end of the month. That doesn't enter into the scheme as laid down by DC. Therefore it is wrong and must be objected to. End of story.

To paraphrase Descarte: DC objects, therefore she is.

That's just the way it is.

[lg1726]

[Sceptic]

Discussion on a POSITIVE thread is most encouraging. Sainsburys want to have their shop, the Planning Departrment, probably, are happy that they do open. However, when we have an " anti" protest over details, everyone's hearts sink. Given the RBD debacle and the LLoyds TSB/BoS card system failure, another ATM does give us another option. Discussion over frontage, rather than sheer rejection is fine.
I have always saod, Finlays, Williamsons and Fine Wine will have their place in Portobello High Street. Sainsburys will, probably, not want to compete with them. They will compete with Scotmid, Kost Koncious etc. If they cannot, too bad, if they can, fine.

[wangi]

I agree that the "heritage" style of shopfront is far more appropriate and it's the sort of issue a CC should get involved in. They ought to consult prior to making representation .

As for DC and PCats - I'm with bearcub. They were a single issue group which has been corrupted and misused by its founders.

[lg1726]

I sent in my supporting comments etc. and today I got an email asking me if I would be willing to participate in a BBC documentary on planning! Apparently the CEC planning office is involved in this and the Sainsbury's job in Portobello is one they are following and they want to speak to people who wish to support the application!!

Help - should I?????

[wangi]

definitely.
You obviously made some pertinent points.
For far too long DC has been the self-appointed 'community spokesperson' on anything to do with Porty and there is little opportunity for other voices to be heard. Take this chance and make your points and show what comunity representation is really about. Also where the PCC lets the community down by lack of consultation.

And good luck!

[gillian]

Deffo, go for it Ig. Great opportunity to show what is going on. Maybe just maybe, when it becomes clear how undemocratic and consultationless the situation is around here, we may get some changes.

[Makaveli]

Go for it lg1726 - why not??? It's your chance to have a say.

[lg1726]

OK - I'll phone the BBC woman and agree to do this! I take you all with me in spirit (40% proof of course!!).

[gillian]

Hope they don't make you sign some secrecy clause, then you will be able to keep us all informed. Very exciting.