New Portobello High School - PPAG/"Save Porty Park"

[Bob Jefferson]

I'm ready to kiss and make up just as soon as this mad merry-go-round ceases but it will be very difficult for parents to forgive PPAG supporters if they delay the opening of the school. They could stop this nonsense tomorrow and give the money to a deserving charity. Their actions are only delaying the inevitable. It's time for a gracious acceptance of defeat and then we can all move on.

[Epykat]

It will be very difficult for some people to forgive being called a vacuous liar or a bitter old witch.

[Bob Jefferson]

Sticks and stones Epy. I've been called much worse.

[Epykat]

But you're a man, you can take it. We're just stupid wimmin, it hurts.....

[seanie]

[Porty]

[Epykat]

[seanie]

Can't say I've encountered much in the way of animosity or angst, certainly not within the community at large. The active pro and anti camps have each had a consistent (and fairly small core) who've had almost 6 years to wind themselves up over what the other side are doing. But that'll be a couple of dozen people at most. They might not be sending each other Christmas cards anytime soon but that's not indicative of any great rift within the community. On the contrary, step back from the school issue and I think the sense of community has only strengthened in recent years. All the things organised by POD, PEDAL, BTOB, the Big Busk, the book festival, music festivals, the sailing club, the rowing; there are things that could be improved but Portobello's got so much going for it.

I can't imagine living anywhere else.

[Porty]

[Bob Jefferson]

The misguided, the misled and the misanthropic. Did I miss anyone?

[Epykat]

[seanie]

[seanie]

[Epykat]

I concede something I said 6 years ago....maybe I should have said 'almost from the beginning' - does that make you feel better? (that's a rhetorical question, I couldn't possibly say anything that could make you more excited than you were when you found that)

[seanie]

[Bob Jefferson]

[seanie]

[Bob Jefferson]

I differentiate between the hardcore and the wider PPAG support. My remark about 'the misguided, the misled and the misanthropic' was flippant but contains some germ of truth. Certainly, a lot of the golfing community have been misled by PPAG about the course being under threat of development along with many other 'green' types who have only read PPAG propaganda and don't know the true facts. Misguided? I think some people see this as an issue simply of 'saving green space'. A noble aspiration to be sure, but not an end in itself. And for some, it is clearly about a perceived threat to the value of their properties. And beyond that, there are one or two who, I'm afraid, can only be described as bonkers. But these are generalisations and each has their own individual reasons for opposing the school on the park. They are entitled to their opinions, but if they wish to promote their ideas through a public forum, then they must expect to be challenged. PPAG lost the argument on this forum very early on and left en masse and in a huff, in some cases deleting their posts behind them, and then complained that they had been bullied. The truth is that it was their arguments that were ridiculed, not them personally. They claimed to represent the majority yet that was proven to be false time and time again. They resorted to lies and scaremongering and lost any credibility they may have once had. Now it's over, they have lost and the school will go ahead, but still they don't have the good grace to accept defeat. Now it's just spoiling tactics, bitterness and bile. It doesn't have to be this way - they can stop this tomorrow.

[seanie]

[Makaveli]

If people think that blocking the building of a SCHOOL is community spirited then I feel a bit embarrassed for them - regardless of whether it is on your doorstep or not I think the loss of Porty Park is for the greater good.

It is not as if it is the only park in the area.

[portygeoff]

[Porty]

Well said PG.

[Porty]

[seanie]

[seanie]

[seanie]

[Epykat]

[seanie]

A dozen or so dodgy people in one small department doesn't render the entire Council Corrupt.

[Puerto bella]

Are you guys on a 'PR/ Defend at all costs' retainer for CEC or something? One does wonder at times?

Yes Epy, saw the programme - frightening for all those people out there who are bearing the cost of this.

Probably one of the biggest fraud/ corruption cases a Scottish local authority has been involved in.

[seanie]

What relatively few corruption cases do occur in Local Authorities generally occur at low level; rogue Planning or Building Control officers, or a bit of nepotism. But it tends to be low level because there's simply too much scrutiny, and too many people involved, for it to go unnoticed at any higher level. Things seem to have gone badly wrong in the Building Conservation Department, and there's probably a failure of oversight. But it's a staggering leap to conclude the council as a whole is a hotbed of corruption. That's unfeasible if simply down to the level of bureaucracy.

[seanie]

People go on about planning and 'brown envelopes' but seriously, think what that would involve.

You might have a planning officer handling a case, with a line manager overseeing, all under higher scrutiny from the head of planning. And for anything major it goes before a Committee of what? A dozen Cllrs from different parties?

How would you even go about doing that?

[Puerto bella]

I'm saving what would be answers to your last two posts for my book, i'm afraid. 17 years in local govt Planning depts in 3 councils and I thought i'd seen and heard it all but was flabberghasted at the contents of that programme and the scale of the fraud. Anyone who doesn't believe that it goes on must live in a lovely bubble.

[seanie]

Does that not support my point?

17 years in local government and you were flabberghasted?

So the exception rather than the rule, surely?

[rmolehusband]

[Puerto bella]